SCOTT SIMON, host:
Whether you're looking forward to change or not, change is a-comin'. And that might be hard not only for some conservatives, who will see the U.S. government run by Democrats, but liberals who have enjoyed years of jokes about George Bush's syntax or Dick Cheney's aim. What do you hope for when your prayers have been answered?
Well, to help with the transition, we've brokered an important discussion to take place between left and right. Joining us from the left is radio host Stephanie Miller, host of "The Stephanie Miller Show." She's on the line from her studios in Burbank, California. Stephanie, thanks for being with us.
Ms. STEPHANIE MILLER (Host, "The Stephanie Miller Show"): Thanks for having me.
SIMON: And from the right, right here across the table in our studios, is Jonah Goldberg, contributing editor for the National Review. Jonah, welcome back to our show. Thank you very much.
Mr. JONAH GOLDBERG (Contributing Editor, National Review): Always great to be here.
SIMON: You've been through this kind of transition before, haven't you?
Mr. GOLDBERG: Indeed, yes.
SIMON: Eight years ago, when President Bush entered the White House. What's your advice to Stephanie Miller as she is not from the winning side?
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. GOLDBERG: Well, I mean, there's some easy ones. For example, if your vice president shoots someone in the face, have a sense of humor about it. These things happen; we now know this.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. GOLDBERG: Another one, another - I mean, another obvious one is when the French declare, we're all Americans now, just keep in mind that they're probably lying.
(Soundbite of laughter)
SIMON: Ooh. Stephanie, what happens if President-elect Obama can't turn water into wine?
Ms. MILLER: Please, Jonah, you weren't listening to Oprah. He is the one.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. MILLER: He is - he will turn water into wine. He will part the waters of the Potomac. Jonah, here's the other thing. I'm going to go out on a limb and I'm going to say - I'm going to predict that in eight years, Joe Biden will not shoot anyone in the face. I'm just going to - I'm going to go with that.
Mr. GOLDBERG: But a lot of people he talks to would - might prefer it.
SIMON: Oh!
Ms. MILLER: What? That was sniping. Was that not sniping, Scott?
Mr. GOLDBERG: Fair enough, fair enough.
SIMON: Yeah, you're sniping. I'll be the unofficial scorekeeper in here.
(Soundbite of laughter)
SIMON: Stephanie, I think probably not a day goes by I don't get a George Bush joke emailed to me. They're already sounding a little dated, aren't they? I mean, what are you going to do for laughs?
Ms. MILLER: Well, that is true. I've said this over and over. Obama, great for the country, just the death of comedy as we know it. We've got nothing so far with this guy. But George Bush, I'd rather, you know, not have a joke as president, so I'm happy to see him go.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Yeah. I think this is a real dilemma is that - particularly for shows like "The Daily Show" and "Colbert," and these are very talented, very funny guys, but they've also sort of taken it upon themselves to be the court jesters of politics, and that's going to be a much more difficult act to do against Barack Obama, which I think Stephanie is absolutely right about, but it's also just going to be a much more difficult act to do against Republicans. Republicans are completely out of power, and if they're going to be equal opportunity, they're going to have to - for want of a better catch phrase - speak truth to power to the people who are in power, and I think it's going to be interesting to see how well liberals react to that.
SIMON: We want to note that according to my information, Stephanie Miller, you're coming to Washington, D.C., for the inauguration. Jonah Goldberg, who lives here, is leaving town.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. GOLDBERG: I'm in all likelihood getting out of town.
Ms. MILLER: Good. And stay out.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Yeah, I may well.
SIMON: So do you have any advice to give Stephanie? I mean, as prosaic as tourist attractions, restaurant recommendations, anything like that?
Mr. GOLDBERG: Well, you know, it's funny. I was reading up on some of the sort of, you know, what-to-do guides for the inauguration, and several press reports said the people who are going to the inauguration should bring their own toilet paper because the crowds are going to be so big.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. GOLDBERG: And I don't know, just me, but I generally have a philosophy of anything that's B-Y-O-T-P, I don't go to.
(Soundbite of laughter)
MS. MILLER: Or to clean up after George Bush's mess.
Mr. GOLDBERG: There you go.
MS. MILLER: To clean up the big, steaming pile that he left for us. Are you allowed to say steaming pile on NPR? Probably not. Oh, well.
SIMON: Oh, you can say steaming pile.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Only if - only if it's part of some National Geographic audio experience...
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. GOLDBERG: About some fungus in the jungle that's endangered by George Bush's policies on global warming.
(Soundbite of laughter)
SIMON: That's really good. What do you make of the fact that President Obama had dinner at George Will's house this past week with a bunch of conservatives?
MS. MILLER: Yeah.
SIMON: And by the way, Jonah, what do we make of the fact that you weren't on the guest list?
(Soundbite of laughter)
MS. MILLER: What do we make of the fact that Jonah Goldberg was not invited?
Mr. GOLDBERG: I steadfastly refused to be co-opted by refusing to actually be invited to it. No. My boss, Rich Laury, was invited. I think it was a brilliant thing for Obama to do, whether it was in the spirit of bipartisanship or in the spirit of a co-optation. To Obama's credit, it's not something that George Bush would have done, but at the same time, you know, it's worth remembering that it's a lot more fun being out of power. It just is because all you have to do is shoot spitballs at the guys in power. And it's going to be a lot more difficult for liberals to figure out how to both govern and stick to their principles, just as it was hard for the conservatives to do it over the last eight years.
MS. MILLER: You sounded almost sincere saying that.
Mr. GOLDBERG: I am almost sincere.
(Soundbite of laughter)
SIMON: Stephanie Miller in her studios in Burbank, California. Thanks so much. And Jonah Goldberg, who in addition to working for the National Review writes a column for the L.A. Times. Thanks, both, very much.
Mr. GOLDBERG: Thank you.
MS. MILLER: Thanks, Scott.