MICHELE NORRIS, host:
From NPR News, this is All Things Considered. I'm Michele Norris.
ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
And I'm Robert Siegel. The economic stimulus bill hits the House floor tomorrow, and President Obama was on Capitol Hill today hoping to whip some Republican votes. Listen in to the debate and you'll hear about the bill's huge tax cuts and spending meant to pump new life into the economy.
And you'll also hear Republican anger about some smaller provisions like $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts or $200 million to plant grass on the National Mall. NPR's Andrea Seabrook reports on whether there is pork in this bill.
ANDREA SEABROOK: Democrats say this bill is clean - no special projects, no earmarks, no pork-barrel spending. But if you listen to Republicans, you might ask, what's in a name? That which we call pork, by any other name, would smell as porcine.
Representative JEFF FLAKE (Republican, Arizona): It's chock full of it.
SEABROOK: Jeff Flake of Arizona, perhaps the most pork-conscious member of the Republican Party.
Rep. FLAKE: There aren't congressional earmarks, which is a good thing, but when you get down to the city level and elsewhere, yeah, it's chock full of pork.
SEABROOK: No earmarks in the bill means no members of Congress managed to get specific amounts of money doled out to special projects in their district. That's what is often called pork in big congressional spending bills. But Flake says even without earmarks, this bill is made of bacon and not because of the Obama administration, says Flake.
Rep. FLAKE: But because it's gone through the congressional Democrats, it's basically a grab bag for every program that they've wanted to see funded for years.
SEABROOK: The bill pushes tens of billions of dollars into education, for example, and not just for building and renovation projects, but for everything from Head Start to college loans and Pell Grants. Some Republicans ask, how does that stimulate the economy? Or says, Flake.
Rep. FLAKE: For example, $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts, I mean, there's no better example than that. How that stimulates the economy, I don't know.
SEABROOK: And then there's the grass. This bill includes $200 million to reseed the National Mall here in D.C. So, according to Republicans, the bill is full of pork, right?
Representative DAVID OBEY (Democrat, Wisconsin; House Appropriations Committee Chairman): No. There's not pork in this bill. There is not a single earmark in this bill.
SEABROOK: House Appropriations Committee chairman David Obey. Every cent of government spending goes through his office.
Rep. OBEY: We are trying to find every possible constructive way to put people to work, and if one of those ways is to repair the Mall, I see no harm in doing that if it accomplishes a good public purpose.
SEABROOK: Obey and other Democrats also say this bill will have some of the toughest oversight of any government spending in years and not just by Congress. After it passes, the public will be able to track every penny of it on a Web site, recovery.gov.
Still, there are some odd bits in this legislation. For example, it specifically bars local governments from using the infrastructure money to build zoos, casinos, swimming pools, golf courses. Arizona's Jeff Flake asks if there's no pork in this bill, why ban these things - to which Obey answers.
Rep. OBEY: Because we don't want to be cheap-shot at to death by people who will simply pick out something that sounds like a funny title and using it to ridicule the entire package.
SEABROOK: Even so, Flake will introduce an amendment on the House floor tomorrow that would ban spending stimulus money on duck ponds, ice rinks, ski hills and dog parks. So the question remains, is there pork in this bill?
Mr. ROBERT BIXBY (Executive Director, The Concord Coalition): Pork is a very subjective definition.
SEABROOK: This is Robert Bixby of the nonpartisan budget watchdog The Concord Coalition.
Mr. BIXBY: One man's idea of pork is another man's vital federal program.
SEABROOK: And that's the rub. When you have two parties with strong ideological differences, especially when it comes to spending taxpayer money, a big ham on the dining room table can look like two different things. To some it's pork. To others it's a nourishing meal. Andrea Seabrook, NPR News, the Capitol.