STEVE INSKEEP, Host:
Democrats are also questioning the president-elect's plan to restore the economy. He wants to create 3 million jobs, and he wants to do that with a massive combination of spending and tax breaks. Some of those items raised the eyebrow of Senator Kent Conrad of North Dakota. He's the Democratic chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, and he does not think that parts of the plan will work. Consider a $3,000 tax credit for an employer who creates a new job.
INSKEEP: If you're in the automobile industry, are you really going to take a $3,000 tax credit to hire somebody that costs you $50,000 a year to produce cars that aren't being sold? It just does not work well in this environment.
INSKEEP: Well now, what are they doing, do you think, that could create jobs here realistically?
INSKEEP: I think the evidence is really very clear that in this circumstance, job creation follows most directly from direct investment in things like roads, bridges, waterways, energy projects that reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Those kinds of expenditures give you the biggest bang for the buck.
INSKEEP: Senator Conrad, Republicans have looked at some of the numbers that the incoming administration has put out, and have said that President-elect Obama wants to create 3 million jobs in America, which sounds good, and have gone on to say that he wants 80 percent of that to be private sector, 20 percent to be public sector, government jobs. And they do the math on that, and they say 600,000 new government jobs?
INSKEEP: Well, if it is considered a government job to rebuild a road or build a bridge because government is paying for private-sector contractors, I'm less concerned about that. And I think they've got more of a case if it's people that go on the federal payroll and have some expectation of staying there long term. Because one of the tests we've got to apply to this economic recovery plan is to have provisions that are temporary in nature. They've got to be timely. They've got to be temporary. They've got to be targeted.
INSKEEP: And when you look at this bill, is everything looking temporary?
INSKEEP: No. For the most part it is, but there are a series of things here that are not. For example, changes in unemployment insurance that some want to make permanent. Changes in COBRA benefits, health benefits, that some want to make permanent. That gives concern because, as you know, we are running massive deficits - 1.2 trillion this year before the cost of the economic-recovery package. And we've got increases in debt of over a trillion dollars a year every year for the next 10 years, if we don't change course.
INSKEEP: Are you concerned that a lot of this money is going to end up in the hands of corporate executives as opposed to people with new jobs?
INSKEEP: I'm more concerned about that on the TARP funding, that is, the Troubled Asset...
INSKEEP: Oh, the bailout, yeah.
INSKEEP: ...Relief Program. You know, the current administration did not restrict, I think, appropriately bonuses to executives who are the beneficiaries - at least their companies are the beneficiaries. Further, you know, when you provide capital to the banks because their capital is impaired, and you want to make sure they can lend, I think you then have to get an assurance from those lending institutions that receive money that they're actually going to use the money to broaden credit availability. And this administration failed to do that.
INSKEEP: You mentioned that with the financial-bailout money, you felt that the Bush administration didn't do everything that they should have done in terms of oversight. Do you have confidence that a Democratic Congress will be able to provide independent oversight of a Democratic White House if it starts wandering away from what the bill tells them to do?
INSKEEP: That remains to be seen. Will Congress do everything that it should? I hope I can say yes. But, you know, after what I saw with respect to the Bush administration's handling of the TARP, part of that was a timing issue. Congress was out of session. We weren't here. And the Bush administration, specifically the secretary of the Treasury, did not use some of the oversight facilities that were provided for and that were fully intended to be engaged.
INSKEEP: And Congress didn't find a way to make them do it, which makes me wonder if you'll be able to put pressure on a president of your own party if there's a problem.
INSKEEP: I think the truth of the matter is, Congress did not do an effective job. Of course, for most of the Bush administration, they were dealing with a Republican Congress that wasn't all that interested in exercising oversight. And so that's a test for us.
INSKEEP: Senator Conrad, thanks very much.
INSKEEP: You bet. Good to be with you.